STELLANTIS: ACORDAOS DE LA GRAN ALFA !!

[Pinin]

Hay una serie de rumores que señalan que Ferrari quiere comprar Ducati.

 

[nacho]

http://8000vueltas.com/2017/06/13/cronica-de-las-8000vueltas-experiences-michelin-pilot-sport-4-s

 

[Breragán]

[facebook]https://www.facebook.com/alfaromeoproject950/videos/1750901731874761/[/facebook]

Muy buen anuncio.

 

[Twin Miguel]

JEREMY CALRKSON SOBRE STELVIO


The Clarkson Review: Alfa Romeo Stelvio


I have driven the latest Audi Q5 and can think of absolutely nothing interesting to say about it. It’s a well-made box that costs some money and produces some emissions and, frankly, I’d rather use Uber.

No, really. Who’s going to wake up in the morning, sweating like a dyslexic in a spelling test, because their new Q5 is arriving that day? What child is going to stick a poster of a car such as this on its bedroom wall? Who’s going to think how hard they’ll have to work to pay for the damn thing and reckon it’s worth the sweat? No one is. You buy a car like this in the way you buy washing-up liquid. And who wants to read 1,200 words about a mildly updated bottle of Fairy Liquid?

What I can tell you before I move on is that I hated its engine. Volkswagen’s post-Dieselgate2-litre turbo is possibly the most boring power unit fitted to any car at any time. It’s about as exciting as the motor in your washing machine. By which I mean, you only really notice it if it goes wrong. Which you hope it will in the Audi, because then you can call an Uber. At least that’ll smell interesting. And come with some unusual opinions.

I’ll be honest with you. I loathe all the current crop of so-called SUVs, except those I dislike intensely. I cannot see the point of driving around in a car that’s slower, more expensive and thirstier than a normal saloon or estate. It just seems idiotic.

But then I had to make a brief trip to Tuscany recently, and once I’d negotiated a path through Alan Yentob and Polly Toynbee and Melvyn Bragg and emerged into Pisa airport’s car park, I found a man offering me the keys to Alfa Romeo’s new Stelvio.

Named after a remote Alpine pass in northern Italy, this is a direct rival of the Q5 and all the other mid-range jacked-up estates whose names I can’t be bothered to remember. In short, it’s a Giulia saloon on stilts, and I was determined to hate every bit of it.

The man was very keen to have his photograph taken with me and to say how much he enjoyed a programme called Top Gear, but I wasn’t listening. I was thinking: “What in the name of all that’s holy was Alfa Romeo thinking of?”

If you have a heritage as glamorous and as achingly cool as Alfa’s, why would you want to make a bloody school-run car? That is like Armani deciding to make carrier bags.

Alfa’s engineers are at pains to explain that, while it may look like an SUV, it doesn’t feel like one to drive. They say all the power from the engine is sent to the rear wheels, but then, if traction is lost, up to half the power is sent instantly to the front. They also speak about carbon-fibre prop shafts and much lightweight aluminium in the body, and I stood there thinking: “Yes, but it’s still a bloody carrier bag.”

I had much the same sense of teeth-gnashing rage when I first encountered Maserati’s Levante, and that turned out to be just as bad as I’d feared. But as the man brought over more friends for more selfies, I started to gaze more carefully at the Stelvio, and there was no getting round the fact that, actually, it’s quite good-looking.

Eventually, after I’d posed with all the police force, everyone in border security and 3,000 taxi drivers, all of whom loved Top Gear, it was time to step into the Stelvio, and there was also no getting round the fact it was a nice place to sit. Way, way nicer than the Audi.


There’s some genuine sculpture in there. You get the impression in a Q5 that the dash was built with all the care of a kitchen worktop. It’s just a housing for the dials and the switches. Alfa has made its one something worth looking at. I suppose it’s an Italian thing. It’s why Siena is a better place to sit and people-watch than Dortmund.

Setting the sat nav, however, was a challenge. This is because every town in Italy has 5,000 letters in its name, and then, when you finally manage to type it in, the sat nav asks which Santa Lucia del Menolata di Christoponte you would like to set as the destination. And it turns out there are 5,000 towns with that name.

Eventually, though, as Alan and Melvyn and Polly were returning to the airport from their week of brainstorming, I had the right town and fired up the engine. The diesel engine. Oh, dear Lord. A diesel Alfa Romeo SUV.

The funny thing is, though, that because everyone in Italy has a diesel-powered car, it didn’t feel all that weird to be clattering out of the car park. And then it felt fine, because soon I was on the racetrack known as an autostrada, where it felt very powerful. The figures say it’ll go from 0 to 62mph in 6.6 seconds, which is good, but it’s the mid-range surge that impresses most of all. It’s a surge you just don’t get from Audi’s Q5. And it means you can always break free from the walnut-faced peasant who has affixed his aged Fiat Ritmo to your back bumper at 100mph.

And it’s not as if you’re leaving a trail of death in your wake because, despite the power and the torque, this engine is considerably cleaner than the diesel Porsche puts in its Macan. And Alfa says it’ll do almost 60mpg.


So it’s as fast as the badge would suggest, but does it handle as well as Alfa promises? Well, obviously, as it’s more than 7in higher than the saloon and has longer springs, it’s squidgier, which would be fine if Alfa hadn’t given it the same superfast steering setup.

The tiniest movement of the wheel causes a big change of direction, which is great when you are on a track in a low-riding “car”, but when you are on the autostrada, on stilts, with a Ritmo up your chuff and a lorry up front that has suddenly decided to wander into your lane because the driver is watching pornography on his phone rather than the road ahead, it can be a bit alarming.

It takes time to learn to think your way round corners, but when you get there, I must say this is a genuinely exciting car to drive. It doesn’t feel as cumbersome as all the other SUVs, and you get the impression it was engineered by people who were involved because they wanted to be. Not because they’d done something wrong.

And because of that — because it’s a big, practical car with a huge boot and folding seats and lots of cubbyholes that’s also an Alfa Romeo — it’s the only SUV that’s quite tempting. It may even be irresistible when Alfa launches the version with the 500-horsepower petrol engine.

Creo que la frase en negrita lo resume todo.

 

[RadiK-Alfa]

De que coches hablan? ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs9_qQXVqI8

 

[nacho]

De que coches hablan? ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs9_qQXVqI8

Ah, ¿pero que salen coches en el vídeo? ;D ;D ;D

 

[Alfador]

El nuevo Journey podría fabricarse en Italia sobre Giorgio compartiendo línea con el Stelvio. Esperamos que si es verdad, Trump no se lo cargo con aranceles.

Y por otro lado, FCA estaría trabajando en un nuevo 6 cilindros en línea. Todas las marcas están volviendo a los 6 en línea.

Por modularidad. Hacen un cilindro único, diámetro y carrera únicos para toda la gama con el consiguiente ahorro estandarizando componentes, 3, 4 y 6 cilindros, 1.5, 2 y 3 litros

La cuestión es si el nuevo 2.0 del Giulia forma parte del "mecano" del nuevo 6 en línea.

Los Firefly tricilindricos creo que son 1.3, no estarían dentro de la modularidad.

Yo no recuerdo en el grupo fiat ninguna planificación modular de motores llevada a la realidad. Pero como tengo poca memoria, ayudadme.
Subir y bajar cilindrada y poner turbos sí, pero con número de cilindros, no.

 

[Zhio]

El nuevo Journey podría fabricarse en Italia sobre Giorgio compartiendo línea con el Stelvio. Esperamos que si es verdad, Trump no se lo cargo con aranceles.

Y por otro lado, FCA estaría trabajando en un nuevo 6 cilindros en línea. Todas las marcas están volviendo a los 6 en línea.

Por modularidad. Hacen un cilindro único, diámetro y carrera únicos para toda la gama con el consiguiente ahorro estandarizando componentes, 3, 4 y 6 cilindros, 1.5, 2 y 3 litros

La cuestión es si el nuevo 2.0 del Giulia forma parte del "mecano" del nuevo 6 en línea.

Los Firefly tricilindricos creo que son 1.3, no estarían dentro de la modularidad.

Yo no recuerdo en el grupo fiat ninguna planificación modular de motores llevada a la realidad. Pero como tengo poca memoria, ayudadme.
Subir y bajar cilindrada y poner turbos sí, pero con número de cilindros, no.

Pues hay que remontarse a mediados de los 90... los modulares "Patrola Serra"

Mejor info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Pratola_Serra_modular_engines (y sorprenden la de motores actuales que derivan de los 5 cilindros del Kappa)

 

[Alfador]

Displacement
(cc) Bore
(mm) Stroke
(mm) Cylinders Cycle
1370 82 64.87 4 Otto
1581 82 75.65 4 Otto
1742 83 80.50 4 Otto
1747 82 82.70 4 Otto
1970 83 91 4 Otto
1598 79.50 80.50 4 Diesel
1910 82 90.40 4 Diesel
1956 83 90.40 4 Diesel
1998 82 75.65 5 Otto
2143 83 99 4 Diesel, aluminum block
2184 83.8 99 4 Diesel
2446 83 90.40 5 Otto
2387 82 90.40 5 Diesel

Visto lo visto parece que la modularidad se trató de ir aumentando la carrera para ganar cilindrada.
El paso de 4 a 5 cilindros no se ha hecho respetando la cilindrada, ni el diámetro ni la carrera (eso de ir añadiendo cilindros... falluta)

Madre mia. No hay ahí dinero tirado (igual me equivoco)... ;D ;D ;D

1742 83 80.50 4 Otto
1747 82 82.70 4 Otto

1910 82 90.40 4 Diesel
1956 83 90.40 4 Diesel

2143 83 99 4 Diesel, aluminum block
2184 83.8 99 4 Diesel

Y este último caso, de traca (por ejemplo, para pasar de 2.0 a 2.4 y 5 cilindros cambia el diámetro Y para pasar de 4 a 5 cilindros con 2.0 cambia el diámetro ).
1970 83 91 4 Otto
1998 82 75.65 5 Otto
2446 83 90.40 5 Otto


Y sin juntar diesel y gasolina (comprensible en parte). Si no la cosa se dispara.
Eh, pero sin ánimo de criticar, que seguro que sus motivos tuvieron ;D ;D

 

[Zhio]

Lo que quieras... Pero decías que no había modulares y hay un montón... En aquella época pocos más los tenían.

 

[Alfador]

Lo que quieras... Pero decías que no había modulares y hay un montón... En aquella época pocos más los tenían.

Hombre, como no conocía el origen de estos bloques me he cuidado mucho de decir que no lo eran. Por eso os he pedido ayuda.

Pero es que no veo esa modularidad. Veo variaciones de diámetros que no entiendo. Es más, conocía el tema del 5 cilindros en las modalidades de 2.0, 2.0 turbo y 2.4. Pero me he quedado de piedra al ver que no comparten ni diámetro.

Ya de siempre me ha parecido un poco errática la política de fiat con los twin spark para AR, los 5 cilindros para lancia, el v6 para AR, el holdem, los jts, el 1.7 turbo que no usa casi nadie, etc etc. pero es que ni los modulares comparten cotas entre todos ellos.

Pero como digo, ellos sabrán los motivos. ;D ;D

 

[RadiK-Alfa]

Casi 1.800 Stelvios en Mayo en Europa

 

[No^Fear]

Casi 1.800 Stelvios en Mayo en Europa

Muy buen dato para Stelvio ... Y el Giulia que tal?

 

[elizalde]

Debo estar volviéndome paranoico, porque veo conspiraciones en todos los sitios... :

Al leer esta "noticia" o "análisis" en jalopnik.com, al parecer, una de las webs más consultadas, que se titula "nadie quiere comprar un Alfa Romeo Giulia"...

"...The Alfa Romeo Giulia was supposed to herald the triumphant return of the legendary Italian brand to the American market. Unfortunately, Alfa’s plan to shake up the luxury car game isn’t working out.

The Giulia Quadrifoglio managed to grab headlines as a BMW M4 fighter with a Ferrari-derived turbocharged V6, but the lesser Giulia sedans haven’t really managed to find much traction.

According to GoodCarBadCar.net, Alfa has only managed to sell 2,482 Giulia sedans (including the Quadrifoglio) in 2017. You could compare those numbers to the segment stalwarts like the Audi A4 at 15,379 units, BMW 3 Series at 22,584 units, or the Mercedes C-Class that sold 35,436 units, but that only paints half the picture.

Here’s some much more depressing figures: Lexus sold 3,311 CT200h hatchbacks, a car the company is killing off in the American market. Acura managed to beat the Giulia by selling 3,958 ILX sedans—a vehicle that has one of the lowest customer satisfaction ratings in its segment. Finally, Cadillac was able to score 6,024 customers for the ATS, which is a good car, but a sales failure by industry standards.

And it’s certainly not a supply issue—there are plenty of Giulias for sale. According to Cars.com, there are currently, 2,209 listings nationwide.


If we compare that to the 3,967 new Audi A4s listings, the Alfa inventory isn’t too far off.


Now, you could chalk up slow Giulia sales to American’s shift away from sedans to crossovers. However, the Audi A4 and the Mercedes C-class both posted sales gains in 2016. Perhaps, American luxury car buyers prefer to stick with what they know, or maybe Afla still can’t shake its reputation for making quirky (unreliable) cars even in 2017.

For a brand new car that by all accounts should be a hot seller, Alfa Romeo has now resorted to leaning heavily on incentives and rebates to convince customers to give it a chance. According to our friends at CarsDirect.com, Alfa is offering up to $2,750 in conquest cash nationwide and an additional $750 for California customers.

So if you happen to be in the market to buy or lease a new luxury sedan and want something different this could be a good opportunity to score a deal and put an Alfa in your driveway..."

Es decir, enfrentas a una marca que está empezando su andadura en un mercado como USA, con ventas del modelo en los últimos dos meses, con otras plenamente asentadas en el mercado desde hace años (Audi, Mercedes, BMW), además de otra (Jaguar), asentada, aunque con nuevo modelo y se permite asegurar que se trata de un fracaso...

Quizás sea la treta de un "community manager" para asegurarse tráfico en la web (hasta ahora, casi 600 mensajes): por un lado, los alfistas defendiendo su marca (no he tenido ningún fallo, etc, etc,...), por le otro, todos sus detractores y "carroñero" en general, criticando la marca y, por ende, al producto italiano (y a todo lo que huela a italiano en FCA).

O quizás es que me estoy volviendo paranoico...

Saludos

 

[nacho]

Haters gonna hate...

 

[Doctor Hackenbush]

 

[RadiK-Alfa]

MOTOR16 PRUEBA EL STELVIO 2.2D 210 CV Q4

"EL SUV PARA LOS QUE ODIAN LOS SUV"

0-100 km/h 7,2 s (lejos de los 6,6 s pero cifras muy buenas.

Luego la leeré con más detalle.

 

[Jadflieger]

Lo que quieras... Pero decías que no había modulares y hay un montón... En aquella época pocos más los tenían.

Hombre, como no conocía el origen de estos bloques me he cuidado mucho de decir que no lo eran. Por eso os he pedido ayuda.

Pero es que no veo esa modularidad. Veo variaciones de diámetros que no entiendo. Es más, conocía el tema del 5 cilindros en las modalidades de 2.0, 2.0 turbo y 2.4. Pero me he quedado de piedra al ver que no comparten ni diámetro.

Ya de siempre me ha parecido un poco errática la política de fiat con los twin spark para AR, los 5 cilindros para lancia, el v6 para AR, el holdem, los jts, el 1.7 turbo que no usa casi nadie, etc etc. pero es que ni los modulares comparten cotas entre todos ellos.

Pero como digo, ellos sabrán los motivos. ;D ;D

el concepto de modularidad no lleva asociado que no puedan cambiar ligeramente el diámetro de los cilindros. Me explico

puedes compartir bloques, ciguieñales, bla bla bla, siempre que no cambies la distancia entre CENTROS de cilindros. lo único que tendrías que cambiar es el propio piston, y sus camisas mecanizando un poco más el bloque. eso es todo.

quizás tengan que cambiar alguna otra pieza como rodamientos, y demás si las fuerzas varían mucho pero el concepto en general se mantiene.

 

[RadiK-Alfa]

Magneti Marelli trabaja en sistemas eléctricos.

Recuero que dijeron hace tiempo que el Giulia podría llevar un sistema de ayuda parecido a un Kers.

http://www.magnetimarelli.com/business_areas/powertrain/bev-hev/electric-motor-generator

 

[RadiK-Alfa]

MOTOR16

"EL SUV PARA LOS QUE ODIAN LOS SUV"

Comportamiento 10
Acabado 6
Prestaciones 8
Confort 6
Seguridad 8
Consumo 8
Precio 6

Como le ponen de bien.

"Dinámica próxima a un deportivo. Y para ello no es necesario recurrir a 400-500 cv ni desembolsar 100.000 euros."

"ESte STelvio ha conseguido marcarme"

"En marcha nada te hace pensar que pilotas un SUV"

"El SUV más dinámico. MOtor con energía sin consumir mucho"

0-100 7,2 s
80-120 5,5 s

Consumo 90/120/Ciudad: 5,5 / 7,1 / 9,8

JODER QUE CONSUMO EN CARRETERA.